SupachaiPanitchpakdi:FormerDirectorGeneraloftheWorldTradeOrganization,FormerDeputyPrimeMinisterofThailandZhigangFu:ReporterofGuangmingDailyinBangkokChinaandAsiawillbethelinchpininleadingtraderecoveryZhigangFu:DearMr.Supachai,itisagreathonortoinviteyoutoparticipateinthedialogueofGuangminginternationalforum.InMarch,whennovelcoronaviruspneumoniawasmostseriousinThailand,youpublishedanarticleinBangkokBusinessmagazinetitled"NovelCoronavirusIsCommonEnemyofTheWorld",whichyouwrotetheworldmustfightagainstthepandemictogether.Morethanhalfayearlater,thenewcoronavirusisstillrampantintheworld.AlthoughChinaandThailandhavecontrolledtheepidemicsituation,theyarestillfacingthepressureofimportedcasesandepidemicrebound.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:Beforetheoutbreakofcoronaviruspandemicatthebeginningof2020,theprocessofmultilateralismhascomeunderthreatmainlyastheUSadoptsthepoliciesof“AmericaFirst”,isolatingtheworld’slargesteconomyfromcollectiveresponsibility.WalkingawayfromtheParisClimateChangeAgreement,rejectingmultilateralagreementsatgatheringsastheG7inCanadaandG20inIndonesia,blockingtheappointmentoftheWTODisputeSettlementBody’sappellatejudges,andstartingtradetensionwithChina,EUandtherestoftheworld,theUSpresentstheglobalcommunitywiththeriskofre-emergenceofexistentialcrisis.Theviruspandemic’sspreadacrosstheglobeispartofglobalisationconsequencesthathadtosufferasweallwentintothenecessarylockdowns.Butbyengaginginlockdownsforeachsociety’ssurvivalwedonotneedtoshutdownourmeansofcommunication,cooperationinleavingroomforlivingspace,exchangeofdataonthevirusandprovisionofPPEsandothermedicalequipments.Atthebeginningofthepandemic,USwasshowingpositivesignsofextendinghumanitariansupporttoChina,whileChinaprovidedassistancetocountriesinAsiaandEurope,andofferedtheadeptdiplomaticgesturetoJapantocomeintoWuhanasthefirstcountrytotransfertheircitizensoutoftheinfectedareas.Theglobalcooperationinacollectivefightandracetofindandtestoutnewvaccinesisalaudableefforttospeedupthelaboratoryexperiments.Andaboveall,inthemidstofthecrisis,weshouldneedacentralbodyliketheUN’sWorldHealthOrganisationtobeasfullysupportedaspossibleincashandkind,toenableittoperformthetaskofcoordinatingandanalysingandsharinginformationandmedicalhelparoundtheworld.ZhigangFu:FacingtheCOVID-19pandemic,theChineseandThaipeoplehavealwaysstoodreadytohelpeachotherandfoughtagainstthepandemictogether.BasedontheepidemicinformationChinaprovidedtotheWHO,ThailandestablisheditsepidemicscreeningmechanismsinearlyJanuary.NovelcoronaviruspneumoniawassuccessfullytreatedinThailandatthebeginningoftheepidemic.Intheearlydaysofthepandemicoutbreak,ThailandsuccessfullytreatedseveraltouristsfromChina'sWuhan,whowerediagnosedwiththenovelcoronavirus;ChinaandThailandalsosuccessfullyworkedtogetherinthesupplyofmedicalsupplies.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:China‘sresolutetacklingofthecoronaviruscontagioncouldbetakenasinstructivelessonsforothercountries.Rapidwarningsplusfulltransparencyinadmittingthescaleofthecontagionarenecessaryconditionstostartclampingdownoninfectedareas.ThespeedwithwhichChinaconstructedtwonewhospitalsinWuhantotakeupnewinfectioncasesisademonstrationofthestrengthofChina’spublicadministration.Trackingandtracingapplicationsthatareappliedwithdigitaldevicesarealsohelpfulinlimitingandmappingvirusspread.China‘sconsignmentsofessentialmedicineandfacemaskstoThailandatthebeginningoftheoutbreakinthekingdomhavebeenmostthankfullyhelpful.Cooperationsintheareasofdevelopingnewvaccineagainstcoronavirus.ZhigangFu:Youmentionedthatitisatoppriorityfortheinternationalcommunitytodevelopvaccinesagainstthenewcoronavirus.Asweallknow,Chinaisspeedinguptheresearchanddevelopmentofvaccines.TheChinesegovernmenthasproposedthatitsvaccineachievementswillbesharedwiththeinternationalcommunityasaninternationalpublicgood.TheChinesegovernmenthasalsopromisedtogiveprioritytoprovidingThailandwithvaccines.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:Asthisviruspandemicisanexistentialthreattomankind,thevaccines,whencompletelytested,shouldbemadeavailabletocoverwidestareasandifpossiblefirstinthemost-neededplaces,mostpreferablywiththeplanningassistancefromtheWorldHealthOrganisation.TheChinesegovernment’sgenerousandcharitableproposaltosharethevaccineswiththeinternationalcommunityisamostlaudablegesturetobefollowedbytherestoftheworld.ZhigangFu:AftertheAsianfinancialcrisisin1997brokeout,youwereappointedDeputyPrimeMinisterandMinisterofCommerceofThailand.Canyoutelluswhatitwaslikethen?Howdoestoday'sCOVID_19crisisdifferfromthecrisisatthattime?Theepidemichasdealtaseriousblowtotheworldeconomy.Inyouropinion,whatlessonscanAsiancountriesprovidefortoday'sinternationalcommunityfromtheirexperiencesinovercomingthatfinancialcrisis?SupachaiPanitchpakdi:Asia’s1997-98financialcrisispresentedamostdauntingchallengetothebustlingAsianeconomiesatithitthefinancialsystemthehardest.Sorecovery,notunliketheonewearefacingwiththepresentpandemic,dependsondelicatebalancebetweenpainstakingdomesticadjustmentsandinternationaleffortstokeepfundsandtradeflowing.Asiahaslearntthehardlessonsofprudentmanagementofthefinancialisationofitsdomesticeconomies,nottobeurgedforwardpurelybyunjustifiedadvicesbytheInternationalMonetaryFund.Stand-byarrangementsfromtheFundarealsofraughtwithprocyclicalconditionalitiesthathelptodeepenthecrisisevenfurther.ChinaandJapanhadbeencomingforwardinsupplyingmorefundingsupportwhileChinahadgonefurtherinkeepingitscurrencystabletoallowcrisis-hitAsiathetimetomakeitsrestructuringeffortsandinpurchasingagriculturalimportproductstomaintaintradelifelinetocrisis-hiteconomies.ZhigangFu:Theprospectofworldeconomicrecoveryinthepost-pandemicerahasbecomethefocusofpeople'sattention.Countriesallovertheworld,includingThailand,arefacingseverechallengesinpost-pandemiceconomicrecovery.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:Asmostoftheexpertswouldagree,post-COVIDrecoveryisanuncertainprocesswithupsanddownsasnewroundsofinfectionswilldisruptasmoothupwardeconomictrend.Globalrecoverywouldnotbepossiblewithoutallthemajoreconomiesbecomingsuccessfulincontainingthepandemic.Wearethereforefacedwithadeeperrecessionthantheonefrom2008-2009withaprolongedperiodofslowandunstablegrowth.Worldtradereboundmaycomeearlierasthe2020contractionisgoingtobemostsevere.ChinaandAsiawillbethelinchpininleadingsupply-chainlinkedtraderecovery.SincetheWTOhasjudgedtheUS’stariffof10percentimposedin2018onimportsfromChinatotheamountof200bnUS$tobeviolatingWTOrules,theUS-ChinatradetensionandtheUS’sreactiontoWTOmayintensify.Fortheworldeconomicrecoverytobesustained,internationaltrademustberevivedandWTOmayneedtobeassignedtheroleofmediatorinbringingthetradeworldbacktoaconditionofnormalcy.Inthemeantime,theglobalcommunitymayneedtobecomereallyseriousinfindingawaytoaddresstheongoingglobaldisorderandtobringbacksomeformofglobalgovernancetocoordinaterecoverymeasuresandjointoperationsagainstthepresentandfutureviruspandemics.ZhigangFu:AftertheoutbreakoftheAsianfinancialcrisisin1997,ChinaandThailandjoinedhandstofacethecrisisandachievedremarkableresults.Nowinthepost--pandemiceconomicrecovery,ChinaandThailandcanalsoworktogethertomoveforward.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:ThereareatleastfourareasinwhichChinaandThailandcouldworktogethernotonlyforthebenefitsofourowncountriesbutalsoforthewiderworld.Oneistheareaofjointworkandinvestmentinmedicalresearchandproductionofmedicalequipments.AnotherisourtradefacilitationeffortsthroughandexpeditiousoperationalisationoftheRegionalComprehensiveEconomicPartnership(RCEP).ThethirdwayisthroughtheconsistentimplementationoftheBeltandRoadInitiativethatcouldhelptomaintainmultilateralcorporationinenhancingeconomicandsocialconnectivityandpeacefuluseofmarinetransportationroutes.Fourth,ChinaandThailandandotherUNmemberstatesshouldjoinhandsinlendngstrongsupporttomultilateralorgainsationsliketheWHOandWTOtopreventthemfrombeingincapacitatedbyanymajormembers.ChinahelpstheWTObecomemoredemocratic,balanced,andmoreefficientZhigangFu:From2002to2005,youservedasDirectorGeneraloftheWorldTradeOrganization.Yourworkhasleftadeepimpressionontheinternationalcommunity.Inordertopromotethehealthydevelopmentoftheworldeconomyandtrade,youtookmanyimportantmeasuresandachievedremarkableresults.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:Amongseveralmeasuresappliedtopromotelinkagesbetweentradeanddevelopment,Iconsidermyconsistentcontributionintheareasofstrengtheningdevelopingcountries’participationinthemultilateraltradingsystemtobeamongthemostimportant.TothisendIadoptedthepoliciesof:a)promotingregroupingofdevelopingcountriesintheirjointnegotiatingpositionsasevidentintheAfricaGroupandGroupof20(withstrongemergenceduringtheCancunMinisterialConferencein2003),b)lendingsupporttodevelopingcountries’demandintheissuesofspecialanddifferentialtreatment,c)takingactivepartintheTRIPSandPublicHealth’ssuccessfulnegotiationbydealingwiththeprivatepharmaceuticalfirmsatthesametimeandcallingforthesupportfromtheUNSecretary-GeneralKofiAnnan,d)enforcingtechnicalassistancetoenhancetradecapacitybuildingindevelopingeconomiesandLDCspartlybymergingtrainingunittogetherwithtechnicalcooperationunittoformtheInstituteforTrainingandTechnicalCooperation,andbysettingaspecialunittolookaftertheLDCs,e)althoughtheAidforTradeprogrammewasapprovedatthe6thWTOMinisterialConferenceinHongKongjustonemonthafterIlefttheWTO,thepreparatoryinitialworkincreatingtheprogrammewasdoneprimarilyduringmywatch,f)promotingstrongercooperationwiththeWorldBankandtheInternationalMonetaryFundtobeconsistentlyengagedintradeanddevelopmentframework;signinganMOUwithUNCTADforthefirsttimewiththesamepurpose,g)introducingintotheDohaDevelopmentAgendatheissueofCottonforthebenefitsofthepoorcottonproducingcountriesinAfricaforthemtohaveastakeinthenegotiationprocess,thisbeinganunprecedentedmoveasnormallyanewissueisnotallowedtobeintroducedintotheroundundernegotiation,h)receivingapartialsuccessintheDohanegotiationastheJuly2004packagehasforthefirsttimeanagreementtoeliminateagriculturalexportsubsidieswhichshouldhelptoreducethepricedistortionsintheworldfoodmarketforthebenefitsofthefarmersfromthepoorereconomies.ZhigangFu:AsDirectorGeneral,youhavepersonallyexperiencedtheprocessanddevelopmentofChina'saccessiontotheWorldTradeOrganization.In2002,youwrotethebook"ChinaandtheWTO:changingChinaandchangingworldtrade".Nowlookingback,howdoyouevalsuatethesignificanceofChina'saccessiontotheWorldTradeOrganization?Overtheyears,Chinahasbeenadheringtoeconomicglobalizationandopposingtradeprotectionism.What'syouropiniononChina'sproposals?SupachaiPanitchpakdi:Muchagainsttheprevailingopinionatthebeginningofthenewmillennium,i.e.China‘saccessiontotheWTOmaydemandimpossibleadjustmentsthatChinamaynotbeabletocopewith;thebook“ChinaandWTO:changingChinaandchangingtheworldtrade”rightlypointsoutthebenefitsthatChinacangainbybeingpartofthemultilateraltradingsystem.ThebookportraysthegainsforChinaandfortheworld,withonlymistakenunderestimationofthespeedwithwhichitwouldbecomethelargesttradingnationoftheworld.WeanticipateinthebookthatWTOwouldneedbasicreformstomakeitworkforeverymember.WithChina‘saccession,itcanbeseenthatthecollectiveroleofthedevelopingmembercountrieshasbeenfortified,alsobythekindofsupportingmeasuresthatIalludetoinanswernumber8.Tobefrank,China’sadjustmentsarestillongoingandstillnotyetcompleted,asistruewithmostmembersoftheorganisation,China’sun-relentingsupportoftransparent,equitable,development-led,non-discriminatoryglobalisationwouldmovetheWTOtoamoredemocraticallybalancedorganisationandamoreefficientandsustainabletradingsystem.Thisismuchneededtocounterthedestructiveforceofprotectionismanddeglobalisationasoriginatingfromthemoreadvancedpartoftheglobaleconomy.ZhigangFu:TheWorldTradeOrganizationhasmadeimportantcontributionstothedevelopmentoftheworldeconomy.Inrecentyears,somepublicopinionshavequestionedtheroleoftheWorldTradeOrganization.Forexample,wecannottakeeffectivemeasurestostopthearbitraryunilateralismandprotectionismsomecountrieshavedemonstrated.AsaresultofUnitedStatesobstruction,theAppellateBodyoftheWorldTradeOrganizationisalmostparalyzed.TherehaveevenbeenvoicesintheUnitedStatesadvocatingtowithdrawfromtheWorldTradeOrganization.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:ThisyeartheWTOwillbecelebratingits25thanniversarylookingbackonachequeredhistoryofthisorganisationembodyingtheglobalisationprocess.Despitehavingtofaceanarrayofcriticism,theorganisationhasneverthelessbeenreasonablysuccessfulin:a)reducingtariffssubstantiallyacrosstheglobe,b)resolvingnumeroustradedisputestoeingstrictlythelineofimpartiality,c)involvingtradepolicyreviewmechanisminlinkingtradetooverallmacro-economicpolicies,d)inpayingmoreattentiontotradeanddevelopment,withspecialemphasisontheplightsoftheLDCsandintroducingAidforTradeProgrammetosupporttradecapacitybuildingfordevelopingcountries.Apost-COVIDWTOwouldbeneededmorethaneveras:a)morecountriesareturninginwardtoprotectthemselvesintimesoftradecontractionandlockdowninducedrecession,b)exportrestrictionsareusedonfoodandpharmaceuticalproducts,c)newdiscoveriesofvaccinesandmedicinesforcoronavirusshouldbemadefullyavailabletoallnationswithouttheobstaclesfromTRIPsagreement,d)surgesofe-commerceactivitiesthatshouldbeuniformlyregulated,especiallyintheareasofsecurity,privateinformationandanti-competition.OveralltheWTOmembershiphasbeenholdingdiscussionsonfurtherreformsoftheagencywiththelikelyissuesbeingsubsidycodes,plurilateralagreements,roleofstate-ownedorganisations,specialanddifferentialtreatment,efficacyofdisputesettlementbody,notificationoftradeactionsandefficiencyofnegotiationprocess.TheforcesforglobalizationwillpressaheadagainZhigangFu:Thepositiveeffectsofeconomicglobalizationonworlddevelopmentcannotbeignored.Duringthepandemic,thevoicesagainstglobalizationhaveincreased.Somepeoplebelievethatthefrequentflowofpeoplearoundtheworldhasbecomeanimportantreasonforthespreadoftheepidemic,andthedistributionofglobalindustrialchainshasalsoimpactedtheanti-epidemicactionsandeconomicdevelopmentinmanycountries.Whatdoyouthinkofsuchdoubts?Willglobalizationendinthepost-pandemicera?Willeconomicandtradeexchangesbetweencountriesbedecoupled?Whereshouldglobalizationgo?SupachaiPanitchpakdi:GlobalisationhasalreadytakenquiteabeatingbeforethecoronaviruspandemicparticularlyastheUS-Chinatradetensionkeptonintensifying.TheUSPresident’srejectionofmultilateralismatinternationalmeetings,includinghisattackonmultilateralinstitutionsliketheWHOandWTO(USblockingappointmentofappellatebody’smembers),seemstohaveisolatedtheUSmorefrommultilateralsettings.Neverthelesstheforcesofglobalisation,althoughweakenedfurtherbecauseofthecompulsoryisolation,willreturntopushforwardaspeoplecouldregaintheirfreedomofmobility.Thenetsofglobalisationhavebeenwovencloselytogetherfordecadesthroughspeedyimprovementsinthemeansoftransportation,communication,supplychainsoftradeandinvestmentthattheycouldhardlybeundoneinageneration.Futureworldconnectivitymaybeenhancedbyfurtherdigitalisationthroughactivitiesinareaslikee-commerce,sharingeconomy,3-Dprinting,andtransferoftechnology.Inthepost-epidemicera,connectednessofglobalactivitieswillslackentemporarilybutwillbequicklyrevivedastheworldeconomycanmovetoresuscitateitsglobalsupplychains.ThegeopoliticsofglobalisationmayundergocertainevolutionasemergingeconomiesledbythelikesofChina,India,andASEANmayoptainastrongerholdontheglobalpowerequations.Forthesakeofinclusiveandwell-balanceddevelopment-centeredglobalisation,theseemergingmarketeconomiesshouldbeallowedfullparticipationinglobaleconomicgovernanceasspeltoutingoalno.17oftheUNSustainableDevelopmentGoals.ZhigangFu:Aftermorethan10years'efforts,theRCEPnegotiationshavefinallybeencompleted.OnNovember15,theRCEPagreementwasofficiallysignedataseriesofleaders'meetingsonEastAsiancooperation,becomingthelargestfreetradeagreementintheworld.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:AccordingtoUNCTAD’srecommendations,effectiveregionalintegrationeffortshouldbeopenintermsofmembership,development-based,withparticipationofcountrieswithcomparabledevelopmentstatus.ComparedwiththeCPTPP(ComprehensiveandProgressiveTrans-PacificPartnership)whoseoriginalblueprintwasmainlydictatedbytheUSwiththelargestandmostadvancedeconomy,theRCEP(RegionalComprehensiveEconomicPartnership)withASEAN-centeredagendaappearstobemoreinclusiveanddevelopment-oriented.AsRCEPcoversalsotheleast-developedeconomiesoftheregionasmembers,thekindofcommitmentsmaynotbetoofarabovetheWTO’snormalagreements.InspiteofthisacceptablelevelofambitionitdoesnotdeservethatderogatorycriticismfromtheUSTradeSecretaryasbeinganinsignificantlow-levelkindofintegration.Infaceofthedeepestrecessiontheworldhastoconfrontasaconsequenceofthenecessarylock-downs,theexpeditiousoperationalisationoftheRCEPwouldprovideacounterbalanceinstrengtheningtheregionalsupplychain.ZhigangFu:TheUnitedStateshasfrequentlyprovokedtradefrictionswithChina.Inparticular,since2018,theTrumpadministrationhasbeendeterminedtolaunchtradefrictionsinspiteofChina'sopposition,whichhasseriouslyworsenedSino-USeconomicandtraderelationsandtheworldtradeenvironment.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:NormallyIwouldavoidthetermtradewartodescribetheongoingtradetensionbetweenChinaandtheUS.AsIhavealreadyreferredtotheWTO’sverdictontheUS’sinitialtraderestriction,theUSresponsemaynothelptosoftenthetension.Butthisverdictfromacreditablemultilateralinstitution,althoughwithlesssupportfromtheUS,mayeventuallyhelptobringmoreinternationalpressureontheUSAdministrationtorelaxitstraderestrictivepoliciesagainstnotonlyChinabutalsotoEuropeandothercountriesdeemedtohavesizeablesurplusesagainstit.AfterallitiswidelyperceivedthatthistradetensionreflectsmorethelossoftheUStradecompetitivenessanditsneedtoprotectitspreeminenceintechnologicalsupremacy.ToresuscitatetheWTO’sroleindealingwithspreadingtraderestrictions,thecommitmentofthewholeWTOmembershiptostartconsideringanacceptableframeworkoftheorganisation’sreformsthatshouldcovertheinterestofallsegmentsofthemembershipassoonaspossible.ZhigangFu:Underthecurrentdomesticandinternationalsituation,theChinesegovernmenthasproposedtospeeduptheconstructionofanewdevelopmentpatternwheredomesticcirculationplaysacentralroleanddomesticandinternationalcirculationpromoteeachother.BuildinganewdevelopmentpatternwillnotonlybenefitChina,butalsobringdividendstotheglobaleconomy.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:China’scommitmenttoboostupitsdomesticeconomytoreducethepeople’sprecautionarysavings,reformstate-ownedenterprises,andraisetheprofileoftheservicessectorshouldraiseChina’sdomesticdemandtocompensatefortheinternationaltradecontraction.AlthoughthepandemicsituationmayatthemomentnotbeconduciveforfurtheringtheagendaofinfrastructuralinvestmentsthroughtheBeltandRoadInitiative,theBRIhastobereadyforsupportingtheforthcomingworldwiderecovery.Chineseeconomymaysoonbecomethelargestintheworldandcarryacatalysticroletohelpmovetheglobaltradeandinvestmentforward.Forinstance,ChinaisthelargesttradingpartnerofASEAN,andalsowithsomanycountriesaroundtheworld.TheimportanceofChina’seconomyasa‘globalpublicgoods’ishardtounderestimate.ThereforetheongoingeconomicandsocialreformsinChina,particularlyalsowiththeurgencytodealwiththeequitabledistributionofeconomicgainsthroughoutthecountry,mustbemaintainedatallcosts.ItisthereforeapositivesignthateconomiccontractioninChinaiseasingupandsupplysideactivitiescouldberesumed,withareasonableexpectationofarobustrecoveryin2021.ZhigangFu:YouhavevisitedChinamanytimes,andthusisawitnesstoChina'sreformandopeningup.SupachaiPanitchpakdi:HavinghadthechancetovisitChinaregularlysincethefirsttimein1985,Ihavewatcheditsassenttotheheightsoftheworldeconomywithfascinationandamazement.ClearlythehardworkandsacrificesoftheChinesepeopleandgovernmentshavepaidoffhandsomely.Inthepost-epidemicera,theworldisshowingturbulenceanduncertaintyandChinawillsurelyprovetobeabletoriseuptothechallenge.Editor:DisclaimerTheviewsandopinionsexpressedinthisarticlearethoseoftheauthor's,GMW.cnmakesnorepresentationsastoaccuracy,suitability,orvalidityofanyinformationonthissiteandwillnotbeliableforanyerrors,omissions,ordelaysinthisinformation.